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ebhari
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Joined: 31 Dec 1999
Posts: 279

PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:08 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Mr.Ravi,

I infer from your points that apart from the R1A(M17) Y Chrosome Hapologroup, no other marker has been identified in our community so far.

My suggestion is that we must go in for a far more extensive study when time permits, to identify other such traits if they do exist. The optimum sampling size for such a test could be chosen from a population of people across all seemais.

_________________
Emerald Bhojan Hariharan.

DREAM. INSPIRE. EVOLVE.
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rnandhi
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Joined: 31 Dec 1999
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:04 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Hari,
By seeing this results, my male blood relatives should carry this marker. This means my father/grand father...... great great grand father carry them. By going up the family tree (Real male realtives) everyone will have the marker.
we are not kundah people. If I am right, the first kundah ayya and the first ketti ayya are brothers. If one of his grand children (Real grand children - No Mixing!!!!!) has them would technically prove majority of kundah and ketti population will have it. I hope this clears my point.
Does this mean all the population in our community have them ? I am not sure. Only test can confirm either(Yes/No) way.

What does R1a(M17) mean. He was one of the male born between 5K to 10k years somewhere in ukrain. He was not the only person living during that time. There is a term called Genetic Drift. In other words his only gene survived not because he was too strong. But other Y gene died out. And his R1a was spread out by his grand sons. It is so found in most of the Aryan communities.

All people in this world (Mordern humans - Homo Genus) are suppossed to have decended from one man and one women some where between 100000 ~ 150000 years ago in africa. Now science is tracing the migration routes of all population around the globe.

But we all look different because of mutation (Error in copying of gene).

It has shaken beliefs of many people around. You and me are not alone.

Regarding testing it cost approx $150. You can go to the national geographics genographic web site for the same.

Bye for now,
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rnandhi
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Joined: 31 Dec 1999
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:49 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi,
For all the guys interested on the above subject, the last issue of national geography magazine has an article on the above subject.
Bye.
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melursenthil
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Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 57

PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:04 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi guys,

Before going deep into our chromosomes and other matter, can we all join together and try to make our genology tree. We have not many old people lef t amongst us who could recall the relationships between us. Can we make a project using the latest technology so that we could at least have a genology tree . Can you give suggestions on howthis project can be carried forward
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rnandhi
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Joined: 31 Dec 1999
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:59 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi,
I agree. This is good for future generation to understand relations and for marriage purposes.
We know some stories from our grand parents. It is free, no money required.
Genealogical study is expensive. Just to find which Hapologroup one belongs costs couple of hundred dollars (convert it into Indian rupees).

If one create family tree and relations can be confirmed with genealogy if required.

Just to add to this I received my 12 STR Y search (Comparing it with others) results. Some have asked to share the same which I have done it. If you are interested contact me through my mail.

Thanks,
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rnandhi
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Joined: 31 Dec 1999
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:21 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Some Interesting links
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1a_(Y-DNA)
Tks
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balamurali_n
Starter


Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:11 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I have this question in mind, are we related to a community in Karnataka called badaganadu balliga, bcos they are from north karnataka or Andhra pradesh and settled in and around Bangalore and Mysore and have an association in Shehadripura.

One more thing is our language suits the north Karnataka than dhakshin kannada or mysore kannada eg.

Gudi, in mysore deversthana,
Giji giji, olla, these are not that often used in mysore or blore pls correct me if im wrong.

Thanks,
Bala
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rnandhi
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Joined: 31 Dec 1999
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:48 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Bala,
As per my research it is leading to that direction. Pls read the following which is been taken from "A Forgotten Empire: Vijayanagar; A Contribution to the History of India"

A fifth, mentioned by Couto,[30] who fixes the date as 1220, states that while
Madhava was living his ascetic life amongst the mountains he was supported by
meals brought to him by a poor shepherd called Bukka, "and one day the Brahman
said to him, 'Thou shalt be king and emperor of all Industan.' The other
shepherds learned this, and began to treat this shepherd with veneration and
made him their head; and he acquired the name of 'king,' and began to conquer
his neighbours, who were five in number, viz., Canara, Taligas, Canguivarao,
Negapatao, and he of the BADAGAS, and he at last became lord of all and called
himself Boca Rao." He was attacked by the king of Delhi, but the latter was
defeated and retired, whereupon Bukka established a city "and called it Visaja
Nagar, which we corruptly call Bisnaga; and we call all the kingdom by that
name, but the natives amongst themselves always call it the 'kingdom of Canara.'
" Couto's narrative seems to be a mixture of several stories. His wrong date
points to his having partly depended upon the original chronicle of Nuniz, or
the summary of it published by Barros; while the rest of the tale savours more
of Hindu romance than of historical accuracy. He retains, however, the tradition
of an attack by the king of Delhi and the latter's subsequent retirement.
Another authority suggests that Bukka and Harihara may have been feudatories of
the Hoysala Ballalas.

I think Badagas are telugu origin kanada people. That is why GUDI, GUDI paruwa, Hatti etc. As of now I am only finding far off genetic relatives. I am refining to find our relatives in Karnataka. It would be helpful if people in those part can find similarities so that we can zero in.

----------
I JUST RECEIVED MY mitochondrial DNS results. If some you are interested to know what it infers you can contact me through my email

Bye
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santhoshks
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Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:32 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Even if im not adequately good for these type of conversation i just want to tell you A Hearty THANKS you all genius.

I am proud that i belong to the same community where all you people having exceptionally intellectual ability of Learning/discoving of our origin with certainty..

Where i am being a good Onlooker...

Without missing a day i had skimmed this post ...


impatientely expecting more from you all....

_________________
(¨`·.·´¨) Best Regards
`·.¸(¨`·.·´¨)
(¨`·.·´¨)¸.·´ Santhosh..
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rnandhi
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Joined: 31 Dec 1999
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:42 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Our Mitochondrial DNA


As Y chromosome is telling us our origin. Every man has an X and Y chromosome passed from his father. We can trace his origin of fore-fathers and map him to a Y Hapologroup. X is mitochondrial haoplogroup which is inherited from mother. Now we can trace maternal hapologroup and trace related individuals and find the maternal side origin.

I just received my mitochondrial hapologroup results. When I compare it with other individual in the database, I found 1 Exact match (M G a Bengali-Exact 12 HVR1 match; Full Name is with held for privacy). This means my maternal line (Assume our maternal line) and other persons maternal line is related approximately 52 generation. Is this the reason we have names like Nandhi, Bose which is common in both the communities. As per my calculation if we came to Nakku Betta (Nilgiris) when vijayanagar fell to the Muslim invasion estimated around 1600 AD., That means we might have here in nilgiris for the last 20~30 generations. (Say 37 years distance between each generation. This is just estimation).

(Please note we moved in our own land (Question of migration does not arise) as nilgiris was under Vijayanagar Empire, where native people were living for ages. One can find Tippu sultan’s sword pierced on a tree to mark his territory in Bisons view point. This place may have been secluded from the rest of the area because of the forest and hilly terrain.)

After the defeat we were fledging the muslim invaders (as they were forcefully converting and were taking our ladies away). This is evident in our legend that Tippu Sultan forcefully wanted to marry one of our lady enticed by her beauty. To escape our ladies took the disguise dress (Kothu and even make them unattractive by having pache kuttal on the fore head. Refer to Indu K Mallan’s article)

This is why we show genetically similar to the cast population. This may have been known to Late Sri Arya gowder (Does this means Aryan Gowder !!!) through our legend. He could have then taken the benefit of doubt if he wanted to.
Let us look at subgroups in badaga community. The Badaga community comprises six major sub-groups.
1) The Wodeas or the Lingayats who trace their origin to the Wodeyars of the royal house of Mysore. e.g. Odayarhatti
2) The Kongaru from the Kongu region in the plains. ( ? )
3) The Haruvas or the Brahmins. e.g. Manihatti
4) The Adikaris or the Magistrates. e.g. Athigaratti
5) The Kanakkas or the account keepers.
6) The Gaudas or the village head.
7) The Toreas or service-providers. e.g. Torea Hatty
These groups are the cast population of the Vijayanagar empire. This is probably the reason we had to leave.
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gopenath
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Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 573

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:07 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Hello Ravi,

I am Gopenath, from Godalatty, now in Germany. I happened to read all your mails and findings through the badaga.org. I think its a long time since you were discussing about our lineage. Of course I am late to see your mails.

Now tell me actually on what field do you work? Have you worked on Y Chromosome and Mitochondrial DNA lineages? Because as far as I am concerned a person cannot give so speculated results unless he has hands on experience in Science. So did you work on The Human Genome Diversity?



Please reply me if you find time and other discussions later.

Hoping to hear from you



Yours Gopenath

_________________
T.S.Gopenath M.Sc., PhD
Institute for Zoology,
Department of Developmental Biology and Neurogenetics,
Schnittsphanstrasse 3,
64287 Darmstadt, Germany.
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rnandhi
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Joined: 31 Dec 1999
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:15 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

This is an absract from a forensic journal published online : 1 July 2001.

You can visit website to see :http://www.astm.org/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/JOURNALS/FORENSIC/PAGES/3717.htm?L+mystore+data6254

Sample was taken from 64 Badagas randomly and tested using the kit mentioned below. It costs $25 to view the detail. It is technical. Do not waste money downloading if you are just a new to this topic.

Caucasian populations means indo european population (Aryan Population). These were people speaking indo european langauges like north indian population hindi bengali punjabi etc. Generally speaking South indian brahmins also belongs to the same group. Haplogroup R1a1.

Thanks,


Abstract:-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Books & Journals/Journal of Forensic Sciences/Citation Page/



Volume 46, Issue 4 (July 2001)



ISSN: 0022-1198
Published Online: 1 July 2001
Page Count: 2

Click here to download this paper now for $25

View License Agreement



Gene frequencies of 12 STR loci in an endogamous Badaga pupulation (South India)
Panneerchelvam, S
Forensic Sciences Department, Chennai-600 004, India.

Gunachandran, N
Forensic Sciences Department, Chennai-600 004, India.

Vanaja, N
Forensic Sciences Department, Chennai-600 004, India.

Balachandran, R
Forensic Sciences Department, Chennai-600 004, India.

Sivapriya, V
Forensic Sciences Department, Chennai-600 004, India.

Baskar, D
Forensic Sciences Department, Chennai-600 004, India.

Nalina, K
Forensic Sciences Department, Chennai-600 004, India.

Rajmohan, S
Forensic Sciences Department, Chennai-600 004, India.

Damodaran, C
Forensic Sciences Department, Chennai-600 004, India.


Abstract
Blood samples were randomly collected from Badagas of the Nilgiris (south India). DNA was extracted by the salting out procedure (1). DNA typing was by PCR using 25 ng of target DNA following manufacturer's instructions (Gene Print™ system (silver stain detection), Promega Corporation. Data were analyzed as per the methods already reported (2-4). Differences have been observed with Tamil population (South India) (5), other nonCaucasian and Caucasian populations.

Keywords:
Badaga, DNA typing, endogamous, forensic science, population genetics, South India

Paper ID: JFS4640994


ASTM International is a member of CrossRef.
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gopenath
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Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 573

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:24 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Dear Ravi,
Thanks for the effort towards showing the articles. Are you working with our Badaga Samples? If time permits please do reply.

Gopenath.

_________________
T.S.Gopenath M.Sc., PhD
Institute for Zoology,
Department of Developmental Biology and Neurogenetics,
Schnittsphanstrasse 3,
64287 Darmstadt, Germany.
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rnandhi
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Joined: 31 Dec 1999
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:18 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

For people interested to know what are the different haplogroups in this world. This is one of the web site where you can compare your results for free.
http://www.ysearch.org/haplosearch_start.asp
bye
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rnandhi
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Joined: 31 Dec 1999
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:49 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Came accross the following links which refers to Badagas.

http://asi.nic.in/asi_exca_indi_karnataka.asp

http://books.google.com/books?id=yhXRDSgBuL0C&pg=PA48&lpg=PA48&dq=mysore+badaga&source=web&ots=u2pMohWVu-&sig=Jnkb3xM2HxOLhU-d9eXj61qxkpw

Thanks
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