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rnandhi
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Joined: 31 Dec 1999
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:07 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi,
I am R from Attumannu Melkundah. A badaga by all account. We are nattaru in attumannu ( Bella makka descendends). When I landed in canada 5+ years ago, as far as I had know, no badaga had immigrated to canada till then. But an advertisement in the airport showed "Apni Hatti". Immediately I looked at my wife and showed the same to her. Apni is a hindi word and Hatti should also be a hindi word. May be coincidence. Long story short many of us may be wondering who we are. The question arises are we dravidian, aryan or people not related to any one. In due course of time I had stumbled upon a genographic project and I decided to participate. And when I got my result, I could not beleive what I saw. Long story short every man has X and Y Chromosomes. The Y chromosome is from your father and he gets it from his father. One is a male because of the Y chromosome. This means my Y chrosome is passed on from the man named "Bella" my/our great great grand father. He has passed on his Y chrosome to all his sons. So all his children will have his Y chromosome. With cutting edge technology of today, scientists can trace ones roots. Since race is a taboo subject in our place, it could be wrongly used if it gets into the hands of wrong people (Politicians). Now for the first time we can say who was "Mr Bella". We also know there were few other ayyas who had come to nilgiris during our great epical migration. Nothing can be said about them until test is carried out on one of there decendends.
Due to sensitivity of the fact, I don't want to post my result on our site. But anyone who wans to know about the same can contact me through my mail rnandhi@yahoo.com for details.
Thanks


Last edited by rnandhi on Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:25 pm; edited 2 times in total
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naveen_sankaran
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Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 25
Location: Bangalore Karnataka

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:55 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Ravi,

I am happy that you have been cautious enough not to post anything that others could find objectionable.
But I am just wondering if it is ethical to trace one's genetic roots. If it is from a purely hobby point of view, it is fine. But otherwise I do not see anything constructive/useful emerging out of such findings.

Please do not get me wrong. I do not mean any offence at all. Am just putting down my thoughts.

If our origin is a mystery, so be it.
I, for one, would like to believe that there is no such thing as 'race' in this world. icon_smile.gif

Warm regards,
Naveen
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ebhari
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Joined: 31 Dec 1999
Posts: 279

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:55 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

With the advent of Technology and Bioinformatics so many mysteries are being unravelled the world over today. Not long ago, there was a program in Nat Geo on the origin of the Tamilian race and it was amazing to find out that a certain clan of the Dhevar community in Madurai, Tamilnadu, have their roots in Madagascar, an island in East Africa.

Science is fact; Sentiments are something else. Man is a social animal, and is very very close to the Chimpanzee family, a recent finding suggests.

Quote:
Scientists estimate that humans and chimps share about 99.2% of their respective genomes but the really interesting bit is to look at those areas in which we are different. These are pointers to the different evolutionary paths that we have taken.

Courtesy: http://thegreenman.net.au/mt/archives/000587.html


So, sentimentwise our case may not be worser than this icon_smile.gif . I strongly suggest Mr.Ravi to come forward with his findings such that we get to discuss futher on this. I believe this forum is beyond trivial gains and constitutes a large number of rational seasoned Badaga professionals / intellectuals who can differentiate facts from fiction.

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DREAM. INSPIRE. EVOLVE.
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rnandhi
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Joined: 31 Dec 1999
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:55 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Naveen,
Firstly without science all of us may be thinking that god made us from some things as said in some religion. We would have still though that world is flat and no one will know dynasours existed.

Secondly ignorance is not bliss.

This test clears our beliefs from fact. I tell you the results is pretty exciting. In other words it confirms what some of us were guessing what we were. If one sees carefully our culture/food habits/language we can guess it.

Thirdly it only confirms one Y chromosome thread in our community. Other still requires to be tested.

Regarding race, i hope everyone speaks one language/has same culture and has one race. Realty is different.

If you travel around the world, the question of our identity will arise and is natural.

Already few people have contacted and I have let know my results. I know you have written for argumetation sake. I acknowledge your comments.

I still think it is better off this site as it is more public. If you are interested you can contact me.
Thanks,
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rnandhi
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Joined: 31 Dec 1999
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:44 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi,
Coorgs (Kodavas) population has the same Y chromosome Hapologroup (which is same as mine). This means they are related to us. I remember some one mentioned a lot similarity between our community. You can visit www.kodava.org. They are also one of the community compared to ours.
Bye,
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ebhari
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Joined: 31 Dec 1999
Posts: 279

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 5:51 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Mr.Nandhi,

I believe that Mr.Devanand initiated the discussion " Karwale - Another Badaga Village" over an year ago. Myself, you and Mr.Sathu have commented on the thread. Although I have no scientific evidence to prove, my typical scorpionic tendency to dig deep into details always told me that we may have much to do with the Kodavas. In fact, there is a gram panchayat by name Badaga in Coorg district.

Secondly, I would state your first revelation as an elementary finding. In fact, I really do not think that we are a Dravidian cult at all. My dad's name is Bhojan. My granny calls him Bhoju. In my last Company, I had met a person from Dharwad in Karnataka whose name was Bhoju.

Discussions with Bhoju reveled that he was from a village in Dharwad district and some of the words he used like beskitti (basket) netthuru (blood) were absolutely vintage badugu.

Now, this Bhoju told me that his great great ancestors were from Rajasthan and they have their links with a village called Bhoj. Mind boggling. I couldn't meet Bhoju again, but I strongly felt that we were sharing a common DNA.

Even in Kannadigas, I haven't heard of names like Bhojan, Bellie, Bellan which I think are unique to Badagas.

Await more of your findings and opinions...
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rnandhi
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Joined: 31 Dec 1999
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:19 am Reply with quoteBack to top

ebhari,
Dravidian, Aryan and Munda is now become a culture than a race. Now we know for sure there are two type of Y chromose marker found in the south indian population. Not all of the people speaking Dravidian language carry them. The native australians have that marker. In other words they have passed through India around 60000 years before.
Regarding aryans, they are many type. Two of the most interesting ones are Indo europians (People from India migrated to northern russia) and second Europian Indian (People left Europe and came back to india between 5000 to 10000 years ago. The particular people of interest are the Kurgan culture people of Ukrain. They were supposed to be the originator of Indo europian language (Like sanskrit). It seems 40% genetics of Delhi population carry those markers. Some south indian community (Aryan communities) carry 28% in there community.
Language is supposed to follow genetics, but people land up into totally unrealted area and speak other languages.
Now genelogy is confirming some and disqualifying some of our beliefs.
As we know that four ayyas had come to nilgiris. We can test them to confirm the majority of our community Y chrosome makeup.
Bye
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ebhari
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Joined: 31 Dec 1999
Posts: 279

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:33 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Dear Nandhi,

I would believe at this point of time that not all the four ayyas would have had similar Chromosome markers in their blood stream. Your views please.

Hariharan Emerald Bhojan.
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rnandhi
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Joined: 31 Dec 1999
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:38 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hariharan,
Regarding your question, the chances carrying the said marker is highly possible. It could be only confirmed after a test.
Bye
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sivakumar_jm
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Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:01 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Too much speculation. It seems if you want to prove a point from the way we look at, we can always find reasons. Does these mean the history books of orgigin of tamil, about the Gods ...all are wrong ?
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ebhari
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Joined: 31 Dec 1999
Posts: 279

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:01 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

The world runs on a combination of scientific facts and speculations. When some speculations are adopted and agreed upon by a larger audience, they become beliefs. History of the origin of any race has always been a mixed bag of speculations ending up in controversies / debates and emotional insurgencies. Not all of History is a fact.

Genomics and DNA studies state the closest possibilities between individuals by working on a set of datas. By compiling Millions of such data, over a period of time, it is possible to identify the common link, the trait within a closed loop.

But, God is a belief / a faith. God is beyond History and Genomics. It is a power which dwells beyond the highest level of human understanding.

_________________
Emerald Bhojan Hariharan.

DREAM. INSPIRE. EVOLVE.
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rnandhi
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Joined: 31 Dec 1999
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:13 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Sivakumar,
Till date every one was speculating. Thinking we are this because we speak this language or that because we speak that language. Now we don't have to speculate. Let us not bring god into this topic. It is totally different subject.
This is private web site and only badagas are supposed to visit. secondly so many of us are interested to know the result. So here it goes
I carry R1A Hapologroup. All the people in the world do not carry this marker. 40% of delhi population carry this marker some ukrainians carry this marker. All the other community in our vicinity do not carry this marker. For example coorgs carry this marker. Some of the scadinavian people carry this marker. Some south indian brahmins carry this marker. (Iyyan ~ Ayyan~Aryan). Two people from Germany one may carry this marker the other may not. In other words R1A is the main component of aryan society.
It seems like big joke.
We know Badaga means northern people. In other words Mysour is north of nilgiris. But even people in karnatak have places like Badaga Kerri village (Visit Coorg Web site). That means they are from northern place with respect to karnataka. Some say we from rajasthan.
This is true for one Y chromosome thread. All Bella makka from mekunadu should technically carry this marker. Others we cannot comment until tested.
I don't want to comment regarding origin of other culture. Now for sure Bella makka can recalibrate there belief.
Bye for now.
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l_santhosh
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Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 143

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:47 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Dear Mr. Nandhi,
I appreciate your sharing these "findings" and taking time to send mails explaining more individually and continuing to explain more in this discussion.

Ignorance is not bliss. I agree and so would like to know our lineage as much as anyone else does...but I can't see myself or anyone being too bothered, let alone feeling hurt by the findings of where from, or who we are.
Sivakumar's comment that there is too much speculation is not completely misplaced...
because there seems to be lots of those in your comments. If that's not true, please explain the following remarks you've made.

Quote:
In other words it confirms what some of us were guessing what we were. If one sees carefully our culture/food habits/language we can guess it.

What were we guessing about what we were? I certainly haven't guessed anyting so far.
If I have, how well should I link it to this topic?

Quote:
As we know that four ayyas had come to nilgiris. We can test them to confirm the majority of our community Y chrosome makeup.

I've also been told this story of four ayyas having come to Nilgiris.
When we are dealing with "scientific facts and genomics and DNA studies", can this too be proved scientifically or has it been already?
Then...who are we going to test to confirm the chromosome makeup....the ayyas???

Quote:
We know Badaga means northern people.

I am not one among the "we". How many is "we"?

Quote:
This is private web site and only badagas are supposed to visit.

That is incorrect. Why is it on the www then?

There seems to be a lot of knowledge in your exploration, but only if you can leave no stone unturned will it be readily comprehensible and less controversial.
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ebhari
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Joined: 31 Dec 1999
Posts: 279

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:25 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Mr.Ravi,

Let us be precise, clear and upto the point. Beating around the bush seems to bring in ambiguity and obscurity. I understand a few points from your statements.

Quote:
I carry R1A Hapologroup. All the people in the world do not carry this marker. 40% of delhi population carry this marker some ukrainians carry this marker. All the other community in our vicinity do not carry this marker. For example coorgs carry this marker. Some of the scadinavian people carry this marker. Some south indian brahmins carry this marker. (Iyyan ~ Ayyan~Aryan). Two people from Germany one may carry this marker the other may not. In other words R1A is the main component of aryan society.


Let me agree that the above statement is true. So, my speculation that we may not be Dravidian is partially true.

When we mean four ayyas, it is surely a speculation. Chances are, there must have been a horde of people consisting of Men, Women, Adults and kids moving in with lock, stock and barrel.

Now, I have a couple of questions here for you.

1) Apart from the R1A Hapologroup marker, what other markers do we find in our Badaga community, vis-a-vis its relationship with other communities?

2) I have heard about Bellie Makka, Maalinga Makka, Hala Gouder makka, Bella Makka or any other man's makka only at a family tree local level. Some prominent personalities and their makka are well known for either good or bad reasons. So far, I haven't heard about BeLLa makka at Badaga Community level.

So, if there did exist one such BeLLa makka, there must have been other X,Y or Z Makka's around. Let me know the relative names of other such makka's if you have any idea.

Lets keep the discussion moving forward.

_________________
Emerald Bhojan Hariharan.

DREAM. INSPIRE. EVOLVE.
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rnandhi
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Joined: 31 Dec 1999
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:53 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Mr Santhosh

I appriciate Your time and effort to write this mail.

I think you have sent this mail for an argument sake. Pls don't get me wrong, I have a few comments on them :

1) You like it or not, R1A(M17) Y Chrosome Hapologroup exists in our community. The test result is not a speculation (I have the Certificate). It takes, time money and reputation of organizations such as IBM, National Geography and other scientific organization. It is pure fact. It is not something one can purge at one's wish or belief. What percentage of our population has them, is still unkown.

2) Quote
Then...who are we going to test to confirm the chromosome makeup....the ayyas???

You have jumped into the discussion forum. You should read the brief primer on X & Y Chromosome in my earlier mail.
"Long story short every man has X and Y Chromosomes. The Y chromosome is from your father and he gets it from his father.
One is a male because of the Y chromosome. This means my Y chrosome is passed on from the man named "Bella" my/our great
great grand father(From Mekunadu). He has passed on his Y chrosome to all his sons. So all his children will have his
Y chromosome."

You will be spared the trouble of testing the ayyas!!!!. One of his son could be tested for Y chrosome marker to confirm which
Genetic Hapologroup is present in his family tree.

3)Quote

"I am not one among the "we". How many is "we"?"

I am sure you are not one among the "we". There are not a lot of people in the "we" that is reason why science is telling you the fact. It is upto you
to take it or brush it aside.

4) Why is it on WWW?

I can decide to keep the fact with me (Keep it Hush Hush) or let our people know it and find who they are and Why R1A1 is in our
community. How many of them have it (Approx %). Could possibly trace our deep ancestors too. I have decided that our people know
my fact and let them rethink or question it just like you.

Few of our people have approched me how to get tested. More results could possibly come, which could indicate different
Hapologroups in our community and percentage.

santhosh to be more comprehensible and less controversial, I would like to post the certificate. This is not required at this time.

I sincerely thank you for appreciating my knowledge of exploration.

Thanks


Last edited by rnandhi on Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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