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l_santhosh
Frequent poster


Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 143

PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:05 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Gopi,
One point is clear from your post - development should begin from within oneself.
That is a great point. I completely agree with it.

Apart from that, I'm left completely confused as to what else you want to say.

While your post emphasises "individual development" that could lead to "societal development", this thread is on "society should change with changing times" . This thread is one of the ways of achieving "individual development" .

Let me put it this way: we are discussing " how to reach Ooty ". Your post says how being in Ooty leads to relaxation.

You've gone to the macro level when the discussion is at a micro level. Correct-no??

And please stop apologising at the end.
We are all brothers and so I think there's no need for that.
You better agree to this icon_wink.gif icon_biggrin.gif
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rajkumar
Starter


Joined: 03 Dec 2001
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:57 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Badaga Society must change with changing times

This topic appears to be getting more complex. Many of our fellow members have expressed and debated their views here. I am going to try and examine some of the issues related to development.

Development is a beautiful word, which should instil optimism, instead it causing uncertainty in our society. Mr Gopenath has correctly pointed out that it must happen from within the individual/community. If there is motivation for development, are there any mechanisms or instruments through which this can be implemented and achieved?

To answer this question we must realise that development is subjective and circumstantial. It varies between communities and countries depending upon the need and necessities. Only when there is a surplus, will there be a tendency to share (exceptions can be safely ignored as they rarely alter the dynamics of the equation). There has to be self-development before shared-development can take place. For example someone living comfortably in a town will offer to provide help to their village nephew or niece to avail secondary or college education (ps: there can be other motives for shared development). Central to development is the economy and the opportunities to earn a livelihood.

Our badaga community is just moving from the basic rung of development to the next. In fact there is a lot of developmental gaps in our hatties. Some villages have difficulty in getting potable water yet appear to have television sets and cooking gas. Some do not have toilets in their houses (sometimes not even a communal village toilet) yet have cars and jeeps. There is no proper infrastructure in terms of economy, health or education or for that matter, proper public roads and yet we are reluctant to hold people or governing bodies responsible for these. Added to this is the corruption prevalent among the governing bodies. Some of our own people are part of this corruption and it appears we are not ashamed of them. We find it hard to question our MP’s and MLA’s because of our so-called soft, polite, kind and generous nature (infact, it is more ‘moghalakara’ in badaga, than the so described qualities). Interestingly our community elders are busy fighting for ‘ST status’ rather than addressing the economic crisis of an agricultural based community.

Within the community we have our own problems. Income from tea is barely sufficient. Poverty and alcoholism is rife in the hatties. People have started migrating in huge numbers to towns and foreign lands. Some of our people have started selling their lands. It has suddenly dawned that there is no future for our people in the hatties. They cannot find a reason to live in the hatties. In the past, people who left Nilgiris always came back for their retirement and shared their wisdom in the well being of our community. Now we are losing that cohort of people as well. In this complex emotional situation we are looking for inspiration and motivation for self and shared development of our hatties.

This brings us to the main issue; are there any mechanisms and instruments to enable development? Economy, education, job opportunities and awareness are the key elements and governing bodies are the means by which we can implement these key elements. Politicians and governing bodies must facilitate and initiate measures like providing bank loans, advice on alternative agricultural means (like horticulture), promoting local people in tourism industry, improving school standards, improving existing and starting new primary health care centres etc. Our community (and hatti elders & wise men!!) must be proactive in identifying and grabbing these opportunities. We should have ruthless and daring people (like a badaga development committee) who can question the authorities if things are not happening. Only then can we see the development of our hatties without any gaps. Maybe it is time we took up politics seriously and elected people who will benefit the community and not themselves. The truth is that without a strong governing body none of our initiatives or goodwill will reach our community. On the other hand it is easy for us to dismiss politics as a sewage gutter or a brothel and concentrate on self-development.

Inspite of this prevailing depressing situation, there are a lot of positives to think about. Many individuals have jumped few rungs of development through their own perseverance, ingenuity and determination. Our resilient womenfolk have successfully implemented the national family program within a generation. After many decades, our lazy and wayward youth and middle-aged men in the hatties have been jolted in facing reality and some have actually started working. We have started taking note of our failings, keen to share our feelings and to quote Mr.Gopenath again ‘started thinking about development’. So it appears there is a hint of expectation rather than plain hope….
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gopenath
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Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 573

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 1:07 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Dear Santosh,
Agreed with your last suggestion. Let me come to the main discussion. I dont understand what left you so confused, for my posts are just reflecting the needs of a Society.
Society should change with changing times is the topic. But how? Any one can note the good things happening around. There is nothing to be excited because we get something good. But concerns need to be more only around the failures. " A teacher never works hard for a bright student, but breaks his head for a dull student......... He never gets excited with a high scoring student, for he knows that it is possible, but gets excited when a poor student exceeds the bright one........... Got the difference? So also my posts are not around the winners, for we know they would win. But what about the failures?
Society should change with the changing times. Yes. Does it mean that both father and son should sit together and have a peg? Does it mean that a son can marry whom ever he wants without the knowledge of his parents? Does it mean that a girl can start smoking? Does it mean that one should forget his mother tongue? Does it mean that one should forget his kith and kin? I put these points here not for the sake of discussion but the fact........ Do you agree with these types of changes taking place in a society with changing times?
And also as you asked, "what else you want to say", I just cannot finish of all things in mind with one post I believe.................. Agree?
Your quote" We are talking about how to reach Ooty and you are talking about how much relaxation it gives in staying in Ooty" DO you think there is no relation? I talk much about how much relax I get in staying at Ooty.............. So you too will wish to stay at Ooty.......... (Please note "by you, I dont mean you personally, but in general).
I give a small report which I dont know whether its a true news or a false one. I heard that some of our elders who reside in Bangalore are planning to build a community hall there............. When we dont have enough facilities in the villages, is it really necessary to have a community hall in Bangalore?If at all a community hall is built in say other cities, do you think people are keen towards moving back to Nilgiris or settling down in the cities?
And ofcourse, as you said, I am in the macro level but ur discussions are in micro level. A small correction here. I have not gone to a macro level. But just focusing down from a macro level towards the centre. And ur discussions are in micro level and will come upto the centre............. So we will meet at one point which is the centre............
The discussions itself was not in a continuous thread.... for it started with Matrimony... and entered into toilet problems in hatties......... So it does not mean that the discussions are out of thread..... for everything between an individual and society is always inter related........ so too all discussions in all threads are always inter related.....................
More to come..................

_________________
T.S.Gopenath M.Sc., PhD
Institute for Zoology,
Department of Developmental Biology and Neurogenetics,
Schnittsphanstrasse 3,
64287 Darmstadt, Germany.
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gopenath
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Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 573

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 1:12 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Dear Mr.Rajkumar,
A good post of thought indeed.......... Its like a bolt in a very essential point in order to bring a balance..................
Still to come.................

_________________
T.S.Gopenath M.Sc., PhD
Institute for Zoology,
Department of Developmental Biology and Neurogenetics,
Schnittsphanstrasse 3,
64287 Darmstadt, Germany.
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sivakumar_jm
Occasional poster


Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:34 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi there,

Again here, right to women..with respect to dowry and land...Agree.

There is concern about the following post:
Also, I feel that all the restrictions imposed on women [who form 50% of any society] with respect to some aspects of a visit to ‘Hethe Gudi’ and in some rituals involved when the ‘Hethe Mane ‘ people visit any village should be removed.

Lets say you allow women in 'Hethe Mane' and someone got period. Would you take responsibility for this ?

Women are actually currently allowed in Hethai Manai (on important occasions; e.g. (deva aduthu), during prayer time.

Its just that they are not allowed to stay in during the one week period when we stay in hethai manne. And even now nobody asks them to leave if they stay. There was one person last year who apparently was from a distant hatti and who stayed in MAGGA MANNE. I offered to take her to my home but she preferred to stay there since she had to leave early. Very nice lady indeed. She was indded one of the 3 persons who saw HETHAI last year (KENDA METTUVANE). I have seen elder women (hathais from various hattis) stay in hethe manne; its fine since most of them are old and don't get periods.

In my opinion its not good to break a rule and assume things will be all right. They are meant for a purpose.

I know personally that during last year, a situation happened where there was "THITU" ..(because of something which is not good explain here); and during "DEVVA AUUVANE", hethai specifically ordered us to do something before even we started everything..... So here you go....

I don't know about restrictions in other hattis..but there aren't too many restrictions to women in ARUR though...

Thank you
Siva
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sendhil15
Occasional poster


Joined: 13 May 2001
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:40 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Gopenath,
Once agin wonderful wonderful points from you..Infact I thot of replying to Santosh with almost the same reply but then decided to wait for ur reply..I agree with all of your views ..
Sendhil
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l_santhosh
Frequent poster


Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 143

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:55 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

As someone said "The only person you can change in your whole lifetime is yourself".

What is society made up of? Simply(though you can make the definition complex) put, it is a collection of individuals.
Therefore, when we say society should change, we mean 'most individuals should change for the better'.

We are on the internet. When we attempt to change our Badaga society via this medium, it simply is NOT going to happen. However, this can be a platform to exchange ideas that MUST be followed by action.

There are ideas and there are emotions.
What is an idea?
View the forum topic 'Contributions to Badaga Community'. What is discussed there is an idea.
What is an emotion?
View the forum topic 'Society should change with changing times'. What is discussed there is an emotion. ('How we can change' is an idea. But the way the discussion is moving makes it an emotion).

An idea can improve the society.
Around an emotion there will only be hot air, though well intentioned, that's useless. I feel we are investing our energies to earn nothing.

Everyone, read again EVERYONE, can pour their heart's feelings(like Gopi when you said you can't finish saying). All well intentioned. But does it give results - does it at the least discuss a plan of action? I can bet on this - discussing in this manner will never help us.

Finally, I'm disheartened icon_sad.gif at the way this thread is moving and probably will let you guys alone.
Thank you. icon_smile.gif
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gopenath
Frequent poster


Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 573

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:17 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Dear Santosh,
Good definitions of ideas and emotions............ But bear in mind that without emotions you cannot go for an idea.......... When I become a hard hearted person who never cares for the people and not concerned with the drawbacks, do you think I can come with ideas to change the world????
I dont know, opinions and personalities differ..............
To tell you more, you yourself have accepted that we are on the internet, and its impossible to do anything through the internet.......... then how do you expect to change things through the net world?????
And you have also given the example of ideas and plan of action by refering to Contributions To Badaga Community....... Its my duty to honour all of the brothers and sisters who have initiated and worked hard............ But, has anything happened?????? Yes. You have accepted that its not that easy to change a community in a short time................ I have been telling this for a long time...........
Ok. forget it. Lets take you and me. If I give a plan of action, are you in a position to execute it???? Or if you give me a plan, am I in a position to execute it????? Then you might ask,why this emotional discussions are needed? Not only this particular topic, but most of the topics posted in badaga.org are only thought provoking and not action provoking............ The reason behind this is most of the people who give posts are not in a position to execute actions............ Its true.......... You yourself started the game of personalities...... you have seen people in different fields in different countries........ Its a great achievement indeed but can all of them come together to start an idea and work towards it?????
Always there should be some THOUGHTS at first, then these good thoughts should only come as WORDS and these promising words should come as DEEDS................ I am reminding you that we are still in the THOUGHTS stage only and we dont know when we would join to give some promising WORDS and then execute them as DEEDS..............
You cannot jump to the third stage without entering the first two stages............... I can understand your feelings that we need to do something towards our community......its also an emotion............... But it seems like you are in a hurry......... Your previous post seems to slash all the discussions.......... There seems to be some harshness......... But sorry to tell this..............
Go through the posts regarding Matrimonial in badaga.in. Then you find how discussions can get diverted......... It needs to be. Its a natural tendency........ Every one cannot discuss with the same point for opinions differ................. Well. I need not drag and am not interested in putting to a debate............. As you said, let our discussions be useless and its upto you to join or let it go dear brother.................

_________________
T.S.Gopenath M.Sc., PhD
Institute for Zoology,
Department of Developmental Biology and Neurogenetics,
Schnittsphanstrasse 3,
64287 Darmstadt, Germany.
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